I recall walking out of IM3 and thinking it was lame, and I've never revisited it. Not sure about the Mandarin, but I always heard he was this big bad villain and then what happened in the movie happened and it was a big WTF for me. C tier for me.

I watched Hawkeye the past 2 nights. It was good. The mid-credits scene after the last episode is a real "Uh, thanks?" moment. What are your favorite mid-credits scenes in the MCU? The best is probably from Infinity War. Was that mid- or post-credits? I also liked that Captain America PSA, though I forget which movie that was.

IM3 was ok. The kid wasn’t that important. It was fan service. Not crazy about the Mandarin twist. Pretty re-watchable movie though.

27. Dark World
26. Thor
25. AntMan/Wasp
24. ??
23. Iron Man 2
22. Iron Man 3
21. ??
20. ??
19. ??
18. Shang Chi
17. Age of Ultron
16. Black Widow

wow. She's really tall

19. Captain Marvel 2019 -- B Tier -- The only thing I don't like about this movie is Nick Fury as comic relief. I get the bit, he's been the baddest mother fucker in the MCU, so let's show that a little cat actually caused the iconic eye patch. Fucking stupid. Everything else about the movie, I liked. Didn't love. I know the dudebros don't like Brie Larson but I don't get it on any other level than 'woman bad.' At least Brie Larson didn't think singing "Imagine" into her phone camera would help save the world from pandemic. The character is fairly boring and needs a comic relief sidekick to make her more interesting and I hope in "The Marvels" the other characters will help. But it's still a good movie to me. I didn't mind the Skrulls being refugees (the "Secret Invasion" show will make sure they're still seen as evil foreigners). I *loved* that Annette Benning played the original Captain Marvel. Yeah, I liked it well enough.

I power ranked it at #21. It’s a hard one to rank.

I think this movie is where I started thinking the whole universe is getting too big for my enjoyment. Now we have people casually flying through space at the speed of light. She’s too powerful. So what’s the point of earth’s mightiest heroes anymore? At least Thor and Thanos have to use technology to travel. And it seems like Nick Fury should have called Captain Marvel several times throughout the first 25 movies if that was a thing, so I didn’t think that story line worked for me. Yeah the cat, that was beyond dumb - didn’t laugh at all. The main character had zero personality - I blame the script more than Brie Larson. I’m with you on dude bros (I hate them) and Brie Larson (I like her), but the whole thing just felt kinda forced and rushed so we could have someone to avenge Thanos. Then they barely used her.

I didn’t hate it though.

Yeah, they've gotten 70+ years to figure out how to write Superman into team stories, but only 10-15 to figure it out in Marvel. Hence always keeping her off-world. But I guess if you have Iron Man, Thor, and Hulk, you could use Captain Marvel to try to keep aliens away from Earth. Too bad the others managed to bring Thanos through time instead of space.

And yeah, I don't understand why it takes so long to get to Earth sometimes while other times it's like instantaneous.

tbh I struggle with Superman as a team member too, but at least he lives on earth and doesn’t just casually fly around space (that I know of), so I can get over it pretty easily.

And I mentioned all the bad stuff about Captain Marvel, but I did like it. It’s in the middle group that’s kind of bunched together. It’s just at the very back of that group. I would probably like it more if it weren’t an MCU movie.

100%. My B Tier is very wide. There's 7 more to go before A Tier.

Whenever we get Dr. Doom or some other similar Earth-based villain, the first thing they'll plan is for a way to neutralize her, or turn her against the others.

Also: **SPOILER FOR LATEST SPIDER-MAN BELOW**

The spell Dr. Strange casts at the end of the movie specifically says everyone on Earth will forget Peter Parker. Captain Marvel and the Guardians weren't on Earth. So expect them to interact. I imagine with Monica and Kamala being Earth-based, we might see Peter show up in The Marvels.

18. Eternals 2021 -- B Tier -- I expect to disagree with most on this one. I just saw this recently, and maybe I just assumed it would be bad based on critical reception, so low expectations led me to enjoying it a lot more than others did. Kumail Nanijani's comedy bits were so shoe-horned in and he was quite the beating. But I enjoyed the rest. Similar to the Iron Man 3 Mandarin thing, I really liked the reveal of the bad guy. He's literally the main character of the original comics, so it was a good shock and surprise for me. I thought it was pretty decent.

#19 for me. The scale of Eternals pretty much makes every other movie in the MCU seem silly and insignificant. Plus, suspension of belief has reached all time levels. You want me to believe a scrawny kid in the 1940s took a super serum and became a badass fighter. Fine. A rag tag group of 5-7 and their adventures in space. Ok, but it better be funny af. But Eternals is so beyond that. And they’re not particularly funny and I really only like 2-3 of them.

In addition, there has been so much time spent developing our characters - and this pushed 10 new characters on us immediately. The backstory had to be rushed and I wound up not caring as much. A D+ series may have worked here. I’ve seen it twice and there’s still 3 of them I can’t name.

Honesty, I thought this may be in your top 10, because I can see how one would really like it. I could easily justify bumping it to 18 (or higher) if I wanted to. I love the ambition here and again, if it were a standalone film that had no connection to what we know, I would probably like it a lot more. Sprite is awful though.

27. Dark World
26. Thor
25. AntMan/Wasp
24. ??
23. Iron Man 2
22. Iron Man 3
21. Captain Marvel
20. ??
19. Eternals
18. Shang Chi
17. Age of Ultron
16. Black Widow

Crazy that we haven’t differed too much yet. I do feel my #20 is going to be high on your list though. Kinda shocked you haven’t named my #24.

I also went in with low expectations due to word of mouth, and ended up enjoying more than I thought I would, but the criticisms are valid. Again, the first Avengers worked because most characters had their own movies, stories, and character development, so they could all be thrown into a plot together and good times fun could be had. Too much to develop here in one film. And I still don't understand why Kumail Nanjiani's character (weird that I remember Kumail Nanjiani's name but not his character's) bailed on the final battle, but then he gets back with the gang after the dust settles. Am I remembering this correctly? Probably not. Kept expecting him to come back at the last second to help, but nope he done pissed right off. What a twat.

Then we got Harry Styles as Thanos's brother.

This is one of the times when my very specific comics-reading window made me very happy. The Eternals had a series in the 70s that I never read, but Eros/Starfox was a big player in the Avengers in my mid-80s heyday. It made me a very happy dork.

17. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 2017 -- B Tier -- This is fine, but way too much Michael Rooker and James Gunn's brother. Kurt Russell was fine and the movie as a whole was enjoyable, I just wish those two had smaller parts.

#10 for me. This was on repeat in our house for a while. My kids and I cracked up so much. We practically have it memorized. At Christmas, my brother-in-law wanted some tape for something and I don’t have to tell you how that conversation went. Let’s just say it was a joke for 3 people, but we laughed all day.

I did feel bringing back groot - even though it’s not the same groot - felt cheap and took away from that phenomenal scene in Gotg1. But damn he had some great moments in this one. Bradley Cooper and Dave Bautista stole the show.

I felt the plot was all over the place and lost its way a bit. Still very enjoyable.

totally fair and no disagreements.

It is a lot of fun.

You'll put yer eye out, kid!

16. The Incredible Hulk 2008 -- B Tier -- I fell like I enjoy this one more than most people. It's kind of the bastard son of the MCU but I think it's still very solid. I do prefer Mark Ruffalo's Hulk in look and action (being more ape-like, rather than Norton's "perfect specimen" Hulk here) and Ruffalo/Whedon's version fits into the Avengers more. But Norton's movie is still very good. And Tim Roth works well as the bad guy.

There’s my #24. I feel like I’m usually defensive of this movie with people who say it’s by far the worst, but I guess I don’t have to be here. As a standalone it’s decent, but it really doesn’t have much connection with the rest of the MCU. I don’t think it was even intended to be part of the MCU originally. They threw in the RDJ scene at the end. They had to exposition the shit out of Banner when he showed up in the Avengers, because it didn’t match where we left him. Ross came back like 12 movies later to tie it together. All of that may or may not be true.

I like Norton more than Ruffalo, but Norton was not collaborative so they cut his ass. There were rumors that Norton wanted to do a 2nd film that would have been super-dark. I would have been all in.

27. Dark World
26. Thor
25. AntMan/Wasp
24. Hulk
23. Iron Man 2
22. Iron Man 3
21. Captain Marvel
20. ??
19. Eternals
18. Shang Chi
17. Age of Ultron
16. Black Widow
15. ??
14. ??
13. ??
12. ??
11. ??
10. GoTG 2

I'm essentially judging it just as a movie. I like it. If it's on, I'll stop down and watch it for a bit. I do like how they essentially tie so many things back to Captain America. Here they were still trying to get the Super Soldier Serum right. It was after my time, but they started doing that in the comics as well. Since Wolverine had no past originally, just bits and pieces got filled in by different writers. It was probably Frank Miller in the 80s who started the whole "Weapon X" name for him. But someone in the 90s took it a step farther and decided the 'X' was a Roman numeral, so Logan was "Weapon 10." Which then lead another writer to go back and say that Steve Rogers was Weapon 1. Logan was the 10th attempt at a Super Soldier. Pretty neat how that all worked out. When we get to Captain America, I will pitch you on the only MCU movie with OG cast that I still want to see.

I'm already tired of the multiverse bit, but it would be kinda cool if they could money-whip Norton into a cameo in Dr. Strange or something else. Though I just read about a cameo in the new Dr. Strange that kinda gave me slump shoulder, but as long as it's just a quick cameo, it could kind of be cool.

It's been a minute since I've seen EN's Hulk. I remember being impressed with how they recreated the slums of Brazil.

Shiitake.

100% gagreed on every word you said, except the tier. It has climbed to #8 for me. A tier if I had tiers. I love it. This movie absolutely holds up.

Edited to not spoil for those wanting the definitive list.

Strangely, I'm actually regretting this now. It should be higher.

You know what, screw it.

15. Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017 -- B Tier -- A fun movie that maybe relies on awkwardness and comedy a bit too much. Tyne Daly in the MCU is pretty cool. The Vulture was... interesting. That flying contraption was beyond ludicrous, though. But my favorite type of villain is one you understand their motivations and you kinda sympathize with, and we have that here. Pretty good little movie.

Still definitive.

I think I just out-nerded dutello.

I have Homecoming at #13. Not a ton to add. Agreed on Vulture. I also like the idea of villains with sympathetic motivations as opposed to just power hungry villains, but there has been so many lately, it would be nice to get a straight up evil villain. I always thought Vulture looked stupid in the comics, so I avoided him and my knowledge of the character going in was really low. Michael Keaton is always a plus. I thought and hoped the credits scene (can’t remember if it’s mid or post) would lead to a Sinister Six type entry. And I disagree with tit on the other credits scene. I hate the Captain America PSA.

Like a lot of people, I’m not a big fan of the Iron Man Jr version of Spider-Man, but I can live with it and I do like Tom Holland. Not really a HSO, but Spider-Man was my favorite growing up.

14. Thor: Ragnarok 2017 -- B Tier -- There's a large contingent out there that claims this is the number 1 MCU movie, or at least their favorite. It's a super-fun movie, for sure. I'm going to basically contradict myself after saying I liked the Incredible Hulk by taking it "just as a movie" despite the tonal differences with the character later. Maybe because that was the 2nd MCU movie I give it a pass? While I like Ragnarok, the tonal shift in both Thor and Hulk to essentially comedy-first characters is just too jarring to me. The whole movie felt that way to me: comedy first. That being said, the comedy is really good. And the Immigrant Song moment might be a top 5 MCU moment for me.

I have tons of contradictions, so whatever.

Ragnarok is tough. Yes, the character changed tonally and I usually hate consistency issues like that, but this was needed. Hemsworth didn't even want to do the character anymore until Ragnarok. He was beyond dull. My bigger issue is the change after Ragnarok/Infinty War. I also hate what they've done with Banner - I guess we'll get deeper into that on a future entry. Hulk going through a wormhole to land in another solar system (?)/galaxy (?) is a bit much for me. I know it's the Planet Hulk series they're touching on, but I like my Bruce Banner on earth.

My son has the immigrant song as his walk-up baseball song. Much like GotG2, my kids and I have bonded over this movie. After first viewing, I probably had it at #10-ish (this is assuming I had seen all 27 movies at the time, which would be impossible), moved it up to top 3 as my kids and I watched it over and over again, but I've slid it down to #9. It is hilarious, but comedy alone doesn't get you in the top 5. But it is a lot of fun.

27. Dark World
26. Thor
25. AntMan/Wasp
24. Hulk
23. Iron Man 2
22. Iron Man 3
21. Captain Marvel
20. ??
19. Eternals
18. Shang Chi
17. Age of Ultron
16. Black Widow
15. ??
14. ??
13. Homecoming
12. ??
11. ??
10. GoTG 2
9. Ragnarok
8. That time I convinced you that you had a movie rated too low

Yeah, the tone shift to a Guardians style movie really threw me. I don't even remember the plot very much. And for whatever reason, that rubbed the wrong way a bit. I still really enjoyed it, but the movie snob in me turned up his nose.

The Hulk has been the most inconsistent/misused character in the MCU. I still feel Whedon was the only one who got him right.

13. Ant-Man 2015 -- B Tier -- One of the greatest accomplishments of Marvel making comic characters mainstream is the fact that there is a legitimate, sincere, non-spoof Ant-Man movie. If you had told me 20 years ago Paul Rudd would play Ant-Man in an actual well-received, big budget solo movie, I'd have said you were crazy. Add to that Michael Douglas playing Hank Pym and the whole world is just out of control. All that being said, this is a really fun movie all around. My largest complaint is that this would likely be a top 5 movie if Edgar Wright had stayed on to make the movie.

#15 for me. No disagreements. It is a fun movie. Easily digestible and re-watchable. I saw this before I saw Age of Ultron, so I was a bit confused when Falcon was defending the new Avengers facility from Ant-Man. I do kinda wish Ant-Man (and the Wasp) came in Phase 1, so the Avengers could have re-created the scene from the first comic cover. That would have been a nice homage. It would have cost us Captain America, but maybe they could have sidelined him in the first half because he wasn't ready for battle or something, then he could have shown up with Black Widow and Hawkeye in the 2nd half to kick some ass. Not sure the public would have bought into Ant-Man and the Wasp prior to the MCU establishing itself though.

All of the images are too big, but this is the one I'm talking about. https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg ... /clean.jpg

So if I want to get started on these movies, is release order the best or should I go with the chronological order on Disney+? And there's a few movies missing from that app, right?

Release date for sure.

You would have to find the Spider-Man movies elsewhere because Sony distributes those, but those come much later anyway. Not sure about the Incredible Hulk (Universal) - they may have a deal with Disney+.

Release order is the way to go. And that goes for any franchise.

Incredible Hulk was the only one I hadn't seen by late last year, and I had to rent it on Amazon Prime to check it off the list.

Ant Man is probably in my top 10 not just because it's fun but also because it has a simple plot that I can follow.

12. Captain America: The First Avenger 2011 -- B Tier -- The movie that moved up 3 spots in 3 days. It boiled down to reading my review and Somey's review made me realize I couldn't put this below Ant-Man, despite how much I like Ant-Man. I'm keeping it at B Tier, but the very top of B Tier.

There are still two Captain America movies that need to be made:

1. When he returns to Asgard with Mjolnir, he would be the rightful ruler. That would be fun.

2. The actual movie I truly want to see: Captain America and Wolverine behind enemy lines doing black ops shit in World War II. That would be awesome.

I was leery of Cap going in. Not near my favorite character. When I saw the TFA in theaters, I remember thinking it was ok to good. But after re-watch and the development of the character in future movies, I really think this one did a great job establishing the character. It’s a perfect origin story, imo, and I’m usually drawn more to origin stories anyway. I’m glad you moved it up, I was hoping for more than 3 spots.

It’s #8 for me.

I’d be sooooooo in for the #2 option. Not big on #1. I thought Cap budging Mjolnir in AoU was a nice little touch, but I would have left it in AoU. I already think this thing has gotten too “spacy”. Cap in Asgard would make my head asplode.

The Cap as Ruler of Asgard thing I think would be a good Taika Waititi type movie, just silly and fun. Truthfully, it's what "What If?" should be. As single, 30-minute episodes, nothing sticks. Pump the kind of money into it and make one story 3-4 episodes, give it some weight and gravity. And pick something like this instead of making T'Challa a Guardian.