Yeah I just complained a lot about a movie I love. The things I mention are what keeps it out of S Tier. You're both right about what's great about the movie, though I thought they'd weakened Thor to a point that the badass entrance to Wakanda wasn't quite warranted, but still pretty cool. I love the ending. "You should've gone for the head" is a great moment. Gamora dying was awesome. The movie is great.

There's obviously one movie we greatly disagree on and I'm very curious what it is. The rest of my list is S Tier.

Truly curious about which top tier movie somey is meh on.

In anticipation of it coming up in this thread, I watched the movie we greatly disagree on on Sunday. I enjoyed it more than I usually do and I may be willing to move it to #15, but even that’s a stretch. It’s me, not you.

There's one remaining that I think is a bit overrated, but not #15 or 20 overrated. Maybe around 10.

I know which one it is. You mentioned here or in another thread about certain plot developments that bother you. You're right. It's you.

The one I think is overrated is a different movie.

S Tier starts tomorrow.

6. Guardians of the Galaxy 2014 -- S Tier -- What do I need to say? Everyone loves this movie. For better or worse, this introduced the cosmic side of the MCU. Yes, there was cosmic stuff in Avengers and Thor, but this went whole-hog. After the success of Groot and Rocket, no wild-ass character is off the table any more. Perfect cast, iconic characters, great all around.

It’s wonderful. #4 for me. Definitely S tier. Looking back, I’m kinda shocked that they were willing to go here on the 10th release, but it worked.

Yep, I feel like this was the biggest gamble for them. It wasn't an established title, nor did it have any well-established characters. And what characters it did have were really weird. Closest thing the MCU has to an 'original' film. Lightning in a bottle.

I read a ton of comics when I was a kid and into my teens. Way more Marvel than DC. I know of many lower tier titles but I had never heard of GotG before the movie. I too thought the movie was a huge gamble at the time, esp with Pratt since all anyone knew of him was the doughy dumb boyfriend on Parks & Rec. When I heard about the movie I just thought Marvel was throwing shit on the wall to see what would stick, but looking back I think they knew exactly what they were doing. By the time GotG came out the world had embraced the MCU and how the movies were linking together, so Marvel had a core audience established and gambled on expanding the universe beyond Ironman, Cap, Thor and Hulk.

I think the movie surprised both Marvel and fans on just how well accepted the characters would be, and how popular the movie would become. CGI at this point had become seamless with reality, so the spaceships and environments are really detailed. I remember thinking at the beginning of the movie some of the characters seemed too cartoonish (a la Star Wars cantina scene) but that feeling disappeared pretty quick and I easily got immersed into the new universe.

The casting is brilliant. We already knew Pratt had good comedic timing, but it turns out he's a pretty good all around actor, too. Batista plays a hilarious foil, Zoe Saldana is hot as ever, Cooper did such a great job I had no idea it was him, and even though I could tell by the 3rd or 4th "I am Groot" that is was Diesel, he did a great job of making it sound like Groot was actually speaking beyond those 3 words (exclusively in that order).

Without the success of GotG, I don't think we get Black Panther, Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Ant-man, Shang-hai, etc. At least not as quickly as they've come.

Walking trees kicked ass in this one.

5. Iron Man 2008 -- S Tier -- The OG, the granddaddy of them all, the seed that sprouted the MCU. Like, it shouldn't have aged well. It's so "small" when compared to every other MCU movie. We should say "it was great for its time" and rank it A Tier out of sentimentality. But it's a great fucking movie on every level. Maybe Gwenyth Paltrow could have been written a little less 'damsel in distress' for the last 20 minutes, but they made up for that in the rest of the MCU. Jeff Bridges was fantastic as the bad guy. Also, I feel he is a character that could be brought back, we don't actually see him die. But I'm glad they didn't. The casting of RDJ is, of course, great. I've always heard nerds say he's the perfect Tony Stark but I disagree. The Tony Stark of the comics that I remember was more swarthy and glib, like Errol Flynn mixed with Dean Martin. Not the dry wit of RDJ, but that's okay. It worked perfectly. I loved the casting when it was announced simply for not going with a 20 something and RDJ's own past/baggage added that flawed alcoholic side to the character. My students had no idea about RDJ's drug and alcohol problem, so when I tell them he was once found in some random family's house passed out in a toddler bed, coked out of his mind, they're floored. Holy shit this is a great movie.

#7. It holds up. Either my final S tier or my first A tier. My uncle was the biggest Iron Man nerd ever. I have the Invincible Iron Man comics (the ones from the ‘60s/‘70s) in my closet from when my uncle passed. I don’t have #1, but I have all of the rest. They’re not in good condition so probably not worth much. I tried to sell a couple on eBay and didn’t get many bites. I sold below the “value” too. Anyway, I remember thinking the character was kind of uninteresting growing up. I had low-ish expectations. I was more interested in The Incredible Hulk. But they crushed this one.

4. The Avengers 2012 -- S Tier -- I don't think I've ever been so pumped for a movie before seeing it and left so satisfied. Over the years, the Whedonness has not aged perfectly and it's a bit too cute at times, but holy fuck the Battle of New York is a thing of absolute beauty. This is still the only movie that's gotten the Hulk right. The Hulk slamming Loki is a top 5 moment in the history of movies.

I went with #2 but it’s neck and neck with my #3. It’s great.

3. Avengers: Endgame 2019 -- S Tier -- Okay let's start with the negatives, and there's a lot. I don't like time travel stories. I feel Back to the Future is one of the most overrated movies ever, maybe THE most overrated movie ever. But I thought it was fun here. Going back through their own movies from a different perspective was pretty cool. I liked the whole "you can't change the past" part and so they're just getting the stones (which opens up the idea that someone else could go to other times and get the stones in a future movie) but then I was puzzled how old Cap was there in the end. I have since read that when he stays with Peggy Carter, it's in a new timeline and he uses some other way to get to the bench at the end, then return to that other timeline. I'm fine with that. Not a major issue for me.

The biggest issue: Professor Hulk. Holy fucking shit, what were they thinking? I seriously wonder what Mark Ruffalo thought of it when he read it. They take the major character issue with Banner/Hulk and solve it off screen and a couple lines of dialogue? The result is awful. Keep him Banner and still unable to turn into the Hulk until he has to put on the stones. Give Banner that moment. The stones might kill him or bring out the Hulk. Could have been a great moment. This is the biggest issue I have with the movie.

Everything else, awesome. Fan service? Sure. But I felt every bit was earned. Every little call-back was fantastic. “On your left.” “We’re on it, Cap.” “Activate instant kill.” “Hey, Queens, heads up.” Captain Marvel’s entrance. “I went for the head.” Wanda dismantling Thanos. The “girl power” moment was forced. What’s Mantis going to do in a fight, make them feel bad? Nevertheless 95% of this movie is beyond great. ESPECIALLY “Five Years Later.” I knew then that while they were going to bring everyone back, there would be actual repercussions, which there had to be. I can watch the whole thing again and again.

Welp see ya tomorrow!

I figured this was your #20 and I 100% understand why, nor do I think less of you for your opinion. I understand every criticism of the movie, and despite all that, I still love it. For me, it's Titanic, it's Last Jedi, it's full of massive flaws but everything else overcomes it for me.

I don’t hate it. There are obviously a lot of good moments. “On your left” and the 2-3 minutes that followed were awesome. The Tony/Howard and Thor/Frigga scenes were really good too. I also liked the scenes when the non-blipped group got back together to figure out where they could go to get all the stones. I even laughed when Thor fell asleep, though that may have been the only Thor bit I liked, until the bit at the end with Quill. Loved the “additional footage” from Stark Tower, until Loki escaped and Cap fought Cap. And of course, the funeral.

I have a lot of criticisms even beyond the time travel, but it’s not worth it. You’ve mentioned in this thread that you’re able to let things go that aren’t essential to the movie. I like to nitpick. It’s still B tier for me.

Yes, I also didn't like fat Thor, despite dressing as him for Halloween.

Ragnarok Thor next Halloween though, amirite?

2. Black Panther 2018 -- S Tier -- This is such a great movie, and requires almost zero knowledge of previous movies. Civil War plays into it, but if you haven't seen it, I don't think it lessens the impact of this movie. A minor quibble over the CGI during the final fight, but this movie is note-perfect throughout. It's a major testament that so many things that would come off as completely silly in other hands don't here. I mean, there's armored rhinoceroses running around by the end. And it's fucking cool. I also loved the global aspect, from Oakland to Busan. The cast is great, but Killmonger is the best villain in the MCU. He's absolutely hateable, and Michael B. Jordan plays him up to be completely so, but he's absolutely right. And in the end he essentially wins. Wakanda is revealed and helps the world, not quite in the way he would have done it, but it happens nonetheless.

This was my number 1 until doing a rewatch of it and my current recently. But they are really, really close.

It was really hard to choose my #2. I wound up going with the Avengers over Black Panther, solely due to the final battle. Otherwise, this movie is perfect. You are 100% on everything you said. #3 S tier. Deserves all praise it gets.

This is the one I think is a little overrated. It's really good and a lot of fun, but it didn't blow me away. Top 10 MCU, but bottom half.

Racist.

Do we have the same number 1?

We do.

One thing I’ll note is at the beginning of This movie, his dad was the Black Panther. But when his dad died in Civil War, Tchalla put on the BP suit immediately. In this movie, he had to go through a ton of shit to become the Black Panther. Seems like the majority of Black Panther would have had to take place in the middle of Civil War for the timing to work. Idk maybe I missed something or maybe it doesn’t matter. I blame Civil War more for shoehorning Black Panther and Spider-Man in.

You're right. I want to no-prize it by saying he had the suit, but not the flower juice, but it seems like he had the super strength/speed then, too. I'm awful with intra-movie continuity. I don't remember shit. Probably rotted my brain from reading so many comics as a kid.

It also had the same plot as Rocky III.

And therefore Creed II.

If only Valkyrie and Stakar could have channeled Killmonger’s anger to good.

If Only sounds like a good follow-up season to What If.

Before we get started, does anyone want to get out?

This is only gonna be definitive if it is capped off with a dingus wave.

Appropriate.

1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2014 – S Tier – Holy fucking shitballs this movie is great. We talk a lot about great scenes in the MCU, and this movie has a ton of them: the Freighter opening, Nick Fury fighting the cops, the elevator scene, etc. But these movies aren’t always equal to the sum of their parts. This definitely is more than the sum of its parts. Cap vs. Hydra is one thing, but Cap vs. Shield and Nick Fury is even bigger. I might have a couple slight complaints about how simulation Zola pulls a Dr. Evil and just explains the whole evil plot to him, but the story needs to keep moving forward, so fine. And Cap’s shield is the most inconsistent thing this side of the Hulk. It absorbs a blow from Mjolnir but he gets kicked by a normal soldier and gets knocked down? Again, somewhat nitpicky and the inconsistency continues through the MCU. Those complaints are very minor. But in the end, there’s great intrigue, and there’s even great social commentary on the battle between security and freedom. Then add George St. Pierre as Batroc the Leaper. Then add on top of that seeing GARRY FUCKING SHANDLING AND ROBERT FUCKING REDFORD SAY “HAIL HYDRA” IN A REAL MOVIE AND HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU HAVE A GREAT MOVIE.

It really is a great movie and it might be my favorite Superhero movie ever. It’s also the first MCU movie I didn’t see in theaters. At the time, I only really liked 2 of the first 8 movies (I’ve since added another to the “really like” list, but the other 5 are in my bottom 6) and I was just going to continue watching these when I got around to it. But this one roped me back in real hard. If I had a complaint, I think they brought down Shield too quickly. This is the 9th movie, come on - Let’s develop this thing a little more. Bringing down Shield would have been a nice tie in to Captain America 3 or Avengers: Civil War. But that complaint is more about the MCU as a whole (and even then it’s a very very minor complaint) than the specific movie and I know most people don’t like to wait too long for payoffs. The elevator scene is everything. I thought this was going to be the one tit thought was a little overrated.

10/10

Good list, boys. While I've seen all 27 movies, I've only seen most 1 time and really can't come up with rankings on my own. I've thought about watching them all in order again, and I've kinda started, but so far I go a few months between viewings. At this rate, I'll be done in the early 2030s.